Author Topic: Whole home mic system  (Read 23952 times)

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jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 08:30:42 AM »
The CastleOS video addresses "whole room" audio, not "whole home".  Kinect is not wireless and I wonder how many Kinects you can plug into to a single computer, even if you could run usb cables more than the recommended maximum of about 15 feet.

jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 09:49:17 AM »
Also you can do the same thing with VoxCommando and Kinect.

Vangelis

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 10:22:09 AM »
Hey LilFonky,

I run the XLR cables through the attic (up from node 0 where the Shure Mixer is). These are balanced and provide phantom power (as you probably already know :) )

I try and keep away from RF as any interference will play havoc with VC recognition hence using all wired connections.

As for gating - I actually use it to determine how VC responses are routed to the Sonos speaker in the 'speakers' location. Background noise can be a pain but you can tune this out to some extent. I can also factor in other volumetric sensing through automation and EventGhost if its really noisy.

Vangelis

jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 11:37:54 AM »
As for gating - I actually use it to determine how VC responses are routed to the Sonos speaker in the 'speakers' location.

Cool.  How are you sending TTS responses from VC to Sonos?

Vangelis

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 12:56:00 PM »
I capture the TTS response as an .mp3 file and have Sonos reference an SMB share (with a little bit of unpn).

Alternatively I can hook into Google TTS via my automation and have VC -> EventGhost (TCP Broker / Output from Shure via digital capture card for Sonos room selection variable) -> Automation (Sonos) to make the announcements (there is a little delay however)

Vangelis

LilFonky

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »
Well I got my new tablet and tiny mic and tried them out together. Sadly (and perhaps predictably) the little mic doesn't produce enough output to be useful for voice recognition; I think the impedance is too high for regular recording, though it works famously with my RTA apps.  I have another ultra-cheap mic on the way, and if that's not sufficient I'll be giving up on the el-cheapo mic approach.  The next step will be to dig into my stash of recording mics (AT2035, AKG c1000s, SM58, EV 660A, EV RE320) and see how they do. But even if I'm satisfied with the performance I'm disinclined to go this route on a permanent basis as I'm loath to litter the house with mic preamps and phantom power supplies and the like.  I'm also not thrilled about encumbering my recording mics for a purpose other than recording.

TBH, I now expect that none of these options will outperform the built-in mic on my laptop, and short of an elaborate hard-wired install as in i.e.,Vangelis's boundary mic rig, the next best option is to just have a bunch of computers all over the place running separate instances of VC. Still, I feel like lots of wall-mounted tablets sending audio over the network to a single instance VC is a most elegant, conceptually clear solution, so I plan to continue to pursue this route for at least a while longer.  I'm super-duper interested in hearing people's success stories in this realm, so if anyone is having good luck in a multi-room, open-mic deployment please let us hear about it.

Haddood

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2014, 03:50:37 PM »
TBH, I now expect that none of these options will outperform the built-in mic on my laptop, and short of an elaborate hard-wired install as in i.e.,Vangelis's boundary mic rig, the next best option is to just have a bunch of computers all over the place running separate instances of VC. Still, I feel like lots of wall-mounted tablets sending audio over the network to a single instance VC is a most elegant, conceptually clear solution, so I plan to continue to pursue this route for at least a while longer.  I'm super-duper interested in hearing people's success stories in this realm, so if anyone is having good luck in a multi-room, open-mic deployment please let us hear about it.

I can't say I have a success storey ... But I have been evaluating and trying to understand the different approaches for the whole house system ... So I will share my ideas

To be able to put things into perspective I think the right approach is based on 2 technical parts and cost implications (which will be driven by how big the house/apt and how many rooms)...

First part: open mic or not ...
Now that depends on what one wants and if that is practical... Ex in my case open mic is not an easy approach at all although it is what I want, I live in an apartment that is 1m higher than the street and train tracks pass right behind the land. So lots of close by noise (noise gating helps, but not much).... Although I am working and researching a lot to improve that, Yet I am still very far from actual working practical solution ... (Late at night when all quiet it works great with very few misses)

Central or distributed VC

The central is an elegant solution but has lots of consequences:
How the voice is sent from other rooms... Wifi, wireless, cables ... And if the chosen system will allow VC to know from where the command is issued .... And if that is easy to achieve ... For example the mixer will it be able to send an event to VC to say the command coming on line 2 or if it is wifi will the software generate an event to tell VC which instance is talking (don't have android so I do not know what vox wave can do, but if it does not do that I think James can add it easily) ...
why we need to know which line is talking, because we will need to understand "turn off the light" means which room ... Or if you are installing distributed speakers "set the volume to 15%" has to affect that room and not the whole house ... And that drags complicated and or nested if statements that is not the forte of VC

On the other hand distributed VC is not elegant but reduces a lot of the complication of running wires and solving knowing which line the command is coming on.. And compared to good mic wireless systems I think the cost is not very different... Specially if one have few old PCs laying around ... Added bonus one combine other functions for each room like xbmc in each room ...etc.

The commands on different PCs can be synced easily by Dropbox ... But it brings the complicated ifs again

It will be great to find a cheap tablette that can run windows with a usb host.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 02:20:39 PM by Haddood »
When Voice command gets tough, use hand gestures

nime5ter

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2014, 04:35:55 PM »
First part: open mic or not ...

My own perspective is that the desire for an open-air mic solution is the main issue.

We have a few Androids (along with some Amulet remotes, some USB mics, etc.). We can, and do, use VoxWav anywhere in our 2-storey house to control VC -- it's not a problem for us because we're not trying to use our Androids as open/area mics. For us, these are a reliable, convenient, and affordable (since we're using them for multiple purposes anyhow) choice.

Someone recently asked James what kind of open mic solution he's using in the "Coming Home from Work" demo video. The answer is simple: None. Every time he's talking to the computer, he has a mobile device or Amulet in his hand. And yet it apparently seemed natural enough that someone watching the video didn't notice that.

For me, it doesn't feel inconvenient or awkward to pick up the mobile or tablet and click a button before talking, anymore than it feels inconvenient to pick up the phone to call someone or walk to the top of the stairs if I need someone to hear me at the bottom of the stairs.

Sometimes, I'll unthinkingly go "old school" and call out to James from another room to ask him to turn down the music or change the living room speakers to the outdoor speakers, etc. Then suddenly I'll think, "Why the heck am I doing that?" Wherever I am, I pick up my phone (or open Tellvox on my laptop if I'm in my office) and issue the command myself. It takes literally a few seconds, and for me, it's a million times simpler and more reliable than having to yell my command at a microphone across the room.

So, the preference to use some kind of always on hands-free open-air mic system is the main challenge.

A reliable hands-free solution seems like it would be particularly important for users with disabilities and mobility challenges, but that wouldn't necessarily have to be open-air. Whenever I think about this issue, that's the problem I am interested in finding a good solution for.
TIPS: POST VC VERSION #. Explain what you want VC to do. Say what you've tried & what happened, or post a video demo. Attach VC log. Link to instructions followed.  Post your command (xml)

keithj69

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 11:27:31 AM »
Just to chime in,  I am starting to crack this nut. 
There is a old thread  that sort of addresses this http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=1425.0

I will be using a polycom ef2280, cheap on ebay. Make sure it comes with a power supply, if no ps do not get it.
My test mic is a pzm-11. I am hoping to have something running tonight. 


 

Haddood

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2014, 06:08:10 PM »
My own perspective is that the desire for an open-air mic solution is the main issue.

So, the preference to use some kind of always on hands-free open-air mic system is the main challenge.

for sure it is the main challenge... because we are trying to make the computer to emulate human behavior ... our brains use so many technologies to determine what we hear and what to act upon and what to discard ... those freaking powerful processers in our skulls they beat any computer ever made when looking at total performance ... yet it is the most natural, that is why it seduce many to achieve it

the mechanisms that we apply to hear what others tell us (what I can think of); prefix, noise filtering, sound direction, and content analysis (speech, music, movie, relative to us or no, voice recognition...etc.)...

the first 2 are easily achieved with current technology and relatively low cost... prefix, comes ready with VC ... noise filtering, using hardware and / or software (I just succeeded last night from isolating the street and most of the train noise using software, although it added latency -up to 3 seconds due to old PC - VC confidence levels jumped at least 10%)

sound direction will take a bit more complex system ... installing microphones on each wall to be able to determine precisely the sound vector direction and source location ( I think some high end array mics can do that as well but not sure how precise and if they render that as data so the PC use it for logic operations)...

the real challenge is content analysis... and doing that in real time, I do not think is available within current technology. We can filter music, movie, TTS through echo cancelation if all passes within the same hardware), and we can give some context by enabling disabling groups in VC and some AI functions (like the one that will execute the command even if the confidence was too low, if VC hears the same sentence twice)

A reliable hands-free solution seems like it would be particularly important for users with disabilities and mobility challenges, but that wouldn't necessarily have to be open-air. Whenever I think about this issue, that's the problem I am interested in finding a good solution for.

wireless mics studio quality will be a good option to try. if the person uses a wheel chair then the battery will become less an issue as one can embed high capacity batteries in the chair (like the ones used in UPS or alarms)

We have a few Androids (along with some Amulet remotes, some USB mics, etc.). We can, and do, use VoxWav anywhere in our 2-storey house to control VC -- it's not a problem for us because we're not trying to use our Androids as open/area mics. For us, these are a reliable, convenient, and affordable (since we're using them for multiple purposes anyhow) choice.

Does VoxWav tell VC which device is talking to it? can multiple devices connect at the same time ?

and may I propose to make a discussion board dedicated to open-air mic ... since it has many stages, devices and complex issues involved

Just to chime in,  I am starting to crack this nut. 
There is a old thread  that sort of addresses this http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=1425.0

I will be using a polycom ef2280, cheap on ebay. Make sure it comes with a power supply, if no ps do not get it.
My test mic is a pzm-11. I am hoping to have something running tonight. 

please let us know how things will go ... I found that passing my voice through equalizer helped a lot (my voice is naturally a bit muffled) by boosting the right frequency range (recording it and optimizing the equalizer to make it clearer)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 06:11:58 PM by Haddood »
When Voice command gets tough, use hand gestures

jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2014, 07:19:41 PM »
Does VoxWav tell VC which device is talking to it? can multiple devices connect at the same time ?

- Yes.
- Yes.  They are not really "connecting at the same time".  They disconnect after sending audio and reconnect when they have audio to send, but basically yes.

after VW has finished streaming audio for a given command an event is generated: (see attached image)
Code: [Select]
TcpMic.WavReadyand the payload is the IP address of the device running VoxWav.  Of course if your Android device IP addresses are changing this will present a bit of a challenge.  Most routers will allow you to assign a fixed IP to any device based on its mac address.

and may I propose to make a discussion board dedicated to open-air mic ... since it has many stages, devices and complex issues involved

Sure, good idea.  How's this?

http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?board=50.0

Haddood

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2014, 09:12:43 PM »
- Yes.  They are not really "connecting at the same time".  They disconnect after sending audio and reconnect when they have audio to send, but basically yes.
that does the trick ... I can not find an iOS app that do the same ...

after VW has finished streaming audio for a given command an event is generated: (see attached image)

so VoxWav won't fire the event automatically ... we must do something after the wavready event ? ...I am keen to learn how VoxWav work precisely (have no android to test) as a possible solution for droid devices installed in every room to control VC


Sure, good idea.  How's this?
http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?board=50.0

this is great ... I just started a thread for noise filtering ... maybe I will take part of the discussion of this thread and posted there or link to it here ...
When Voice command gets tough, use hand gestures

jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2014, 09:37:21 PM »
so VoxWav won't fire the event automatically ... we must do something after the wavready event ?

What?  Yes it generates this event automatically.  As with all events it is your choice if you want to do something with the event or not.

Haddood

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2014, 10:02:32 PM »
Maybe my question was not clear ... once something said in VoxWav what happens exactly ? VC will hear the phrase through UDP (tellvox) then the event generated ... or the wave file will be stored on the PC then we have to write a command that fires with the event to process it ?
When Voice command gets tough, use hand gestures

jitterjames

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Re: Whole home mic system
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2014, 10:46:43 PM »
I think maybe there is no point discussing it until you have tried using VoxWav.  It is streaming audio to VoxCommando.  You don't need to write any commands.  You only need to enable the TcpMic plugin, which listens for the connections from VoxWav.  Yes a wav file is temporarily stored on disk and then analyzed but it is all done automatically.

VoxWav does not normally use tellVox, it uses speech recognition and audio steaming.

http://voxwav.wikispaces.com/VoxWav+Home