Author Topic: RFID/NFC Room Detection (Read 8710 times)

SeanCRS1 · « **on:** January 24, 2014, 03:18:03 PM »

Group,
So I have been considering ways to do room and personal level detection in order to have VC commands "auto switch" upon movement between rooms. Simple enough if I walk one room to another and say "Turn On Lights" the system can know what room I am in and what lights to enable. I understand that I could use voice commands to announce my room, or even motion sensors to detect movement but each has their flaws ( yes I refer to my dogs motion as a flaw).
What I am considering is setting up internal geo-fencing with RFID Tags spread throughout the house and actually tying these tags to the NCF on my Galaxy 3 smartphone to detect where I am in the house by the last registered tag reading. So in theory I enter a room through doorway and one of several RFID Tags will be read by my phone and the Tasker app in phone could then issue a TCP command to VOX that that tag was just read. As I move room to room the tags could change the zone I am in and run macros changing the default audio output for VC, the Lighting Commands, and others. As well by using phones the commands could be unique so profiles could be detected allowing preferred lighting levels to be set or used.

I have not done anything with RFID in the past but do understand the basics of the technology. Couple of questions I have for the group would be
1. If anyone has done something like this in the past please share your experience
2. Active RFID tags seem to put out too large of range to be effective (could pick me up from wrong room) and passive tags of course need to be within a few inches from what I understand. Does anyone know of a golden zone RFID tag with about 1 meter range?
3. Assuming I the guinea pig on this concept, anyone have a RFID Tag vendor they recommend over another?

Please forgive if this is a duplicate post, I dug through the forums and while I see RFID using the reader tied to the PC to detect general arrival I didn't see anything reversing the model to have a cell as the reader and the tags for location. Same on Googles and Youtubes but if I missed something please point me to that =)

As always thanks for reading my crazy ideas.

Sean

Kalle · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2014, 03:36:32 PM »

Yes, Mr.Wolf (Paul) has something done with NFC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_tl8qcAKE

Kalle

jitterjames · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2014, 04:18:40 PM »

I know very little about the subject but I suspect there is no such thing as a passive tag reader with the kind of range you are talking about. Active readers could possibly be modified to reduce the range but I think they are expensive and I don't know if such a system could work with your phone.

SeanCRS1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2014, 04:49:14 PM »

Kalle,
Thanks for the reply and the link. Mr. Wolf, Great video, thanks for sharing.

As I have wasted my workday at the office I moved from NFC over to SmartBluetooth as it allows a heck of a lot more control and capability. I actually just placed my pre-order with Estimote.com hoping they are legit and ship soon. Not exactly sure how this will all work yet, but hoping with three devices I can actually triangulate my position in the house and control via that, if not at very least use each beacon to set my room based on distance from beacon (sticking beacon in middle of the room of course.

I may be pushing the threshold here but can't resist tinkering.

Sean

SeanCRS1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2014, 04:51:06 PM »

Also meant to share this link: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/apple/apple-ibeacons-explained-smart-home-occupancy-sensing-solved.html

jitterjames · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2014, 05:46:37 PM »

Looks like it could be very cool if it works as hoped. Please let us know how it goes!

Vangelis · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2014, 07:03:09 AM »

Hey SeanCRS1

iBeacons are the way forward as they utilise LowPower Bluetooth, which on your SmartPhone is always enabled (ala Bluetooth Headsets).
Passive RFID - The read distance would be too small
Active RFID - The read distance would be too great
SmartPhone NFC - Not sure this is always enabled when in sleep mode (same as WiFi). However on Android I am sure this can be overcome.

As opposed to vendor iBeacons, have a look at this (http://learn.adafruit.com/pibeacon-ibeacon-with-a-raspberry-pi/overview). Bit cheaper using a Pi maybe.

As well as having VoxCommando change it's profile based on room location, you can also have a 'Music Follow-Me Option'

Be interested on your findings as I am planning on a similar design to yours...

Vangelis

Kalle · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2014, 08:00:25 AM »

Hey Sean and Vangelis,

this looks like also interesting if you plan to buy more then one device (which makes sense) https://roximity.com/buy-now/ it works on iOS and Android so far I understand

Kalle

Vangelis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2014, 08:10:00 AM »

Also just seen these ... http://geohopper.com/bleu which are USB based. Combined with one of these ... http://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/electricalsupplies-blog-article-219.htm and you have small form factor with no battery issues

SeanCRS1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2014, 10:38:10 AM »

Wow, All I can say is thank you everyone for the immense response and support on this! I swear the Vox Forums are the friendliest most supportive group of any I have been a part of =D

Vangelis, thank you for the details regarding RFID and NCF options. The distance factors were certainly a concern for me and it's convenient to have my concerns confirmed by another. The Rasberry pi beacons look really cool and I will bet there will be a lot more capability in programming since it will be open source, but that being said I am looking at the Roximity equipment and waiting on my confirmation from Estimote about theirs as well. Personally I am looking for the most simple implementation to begin with and evolve it from there.

Kalle,
Thanks for sharing that link I am going to purchase those ASAP as Estimote seems to be back ordered. From what I can tell with any of these solutions more than one device will be a definite, and most likely will have to build some sort of a "training profile" app for the beacons to know which room I am in. Essentially record distances (from all three beacons, possible as an X,Y, & Z Axis to allow for multiple floors) as I walk the perimeter of the room and store those for later use. I have tested out a few Android Beacon apps and they all seem to just point out relative 1D distance, not necessarily distance in 3D space.

Soon as I get the devices in I will certainly update my posting here. Really excited about this. Again thanks each of you for the input =)

Sean

SeanCRS1 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:41:47 PM »

Received the iBeacons in (ordered through Roximity) and their API, now searching for a developer to create the spacial recognition/room mapping app. Completely off topic but does anyone know of an android development company they would recommend (Sorry but No James you have enough on your plate =P). I am putting a few requests in to local companies I found on Google but would greatly value input if anyone knows a development company.

Thanks in advance.

garryjw · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2014, 12:31:51 PM »

This sounds really interesting. When I'm not editing FascinatingTech.com magazine, I run a app development company appXib.com and might be prepared to help. (garry at appXib.com)

I suspect the number of potential users would not make it a very commercial project for end-users but it could have uses in the conference/event sphere we work in.

Cheers
Garry

mdsh · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2014, 02:18:22 AM »

Hi SeanCRS1 thank you for asking this question. I have been looking at something called Ninja Sphere that would make something like this possible but now that the input has been so great from everyone I have a bit more reading to do

so thank you everyone for sharing

mdsh · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2014, 07:33:32 AM »

Hi again SeanCRS1 and other members reading this. Just had a though

that I will try over the weekend if I have time. Not sure if you have a vera system (micasaverde) but if you do you could get the motion sensors and just tweak it from this great video from James https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF1aKh8aqZU The tweak can be once it gets motion from vera then VC can use that trigger to enable a group of commands associated with that particular rook.

Only thing I am not sure of as I havent installed my vera yet (but I'm sure some of the other clever members can help with) is how you would "disable" that group once you leave the room? Some insight here would be great.

Again just a random brainwave from me and it makes sense in my head but the others will correct me if its wrong im sure.

Regards

Kalle · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:19:14 AM »

Yes it is possible to do this with vera PIR sensors, but there some problems.
1. if there are live more then one person in your house.
2. The PIR sensors expensive.

and I think some others ...

Kalle

nime5ter · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:22:51 AM »

Quote from: mdsh on April 23, 2014, 07:33:32 AM

Only thing I am not sure of as I havent installed my vera yet (but I'm sure some of the other clever members can help with) is how you would "disable" that group once you leave the room? Some insight here would be great.

When a motion sensor is tripped, a tripped event occurs. A "secure" event occurs (see attached image) when no longer tripped, which could be used as a trigger to disable the group.

jitterjames · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2014, 08:25:07 AM »

I have seen some motion sensors for Zwave for about $30 in the US (on sale, not regular price). This Technique might not work for everyone but for some people it might be good enough. If you have another device like an alarm system connected to Vera then maybe you can add cheaper PIR sensors too.

mdsh · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2014, 07:27:17 AM »

Hi Kalle, yes I agree with the two or more people that can be a problem. I have just set this up in my man cave to test this with lights on when I open the door https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKO6TQP5Kpk so I will play with the enable and disable of commands in VC from this point on seeing as my vera unit has finally been installed. Whole new can of worms and learning to "program" my vera mow. I see many late nights coming my way.

SeanCRS1 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2014, 11:02:50 PM »

just a quick update from the road but tasker has enabled btle support and btle near status detection. i will be testing with that and roximity beacons soon as i get home. you could also test with regular bluetooth dongle from what i can tell. Still does not solve "room mapping" or triangulation but certainly a step in the right direction. will update this post later in the week.

Sean