Kinect

[Foggy]

Great, Thanks for the update.

Happy new year to all.

Best wishes.

[Foggy]

Hi,

Just thought I would let you know that I have got my Kinect and installed it.
Control of XBMC does work - but needs some practice.

Just in case it helps.

Downloaded and installed (Without connecting the Kinect)
a). OpenNI Framework
b). Sensor driver
c). NITE Middleware

Then I connected the Kinect and Windows then installed the drivers.
However it does not install the Audio driver - checked on the KinEmote forum and this is expected behavior.

Then installed the KinEmote software.

Best wishes.

[jitterjames]

Hey, Thanks for that info.  I'm a bit confused though by what you wrote.

First you said:

Downloaded and installed (Without connecting the Kinect)
a). OpenNI Framework
b). Sensor driver
c). NITE Middleware

then you said:

Then I connected the Kinect and Windows then installed the drivers.

So, do you mean that windows automatically "installed" drivers, based on the stuff that you installed already, in steps a,b,c ?

Also, you don't provide links to the files you used in a,b,c.  It would be helpful to have links to the correct files, or if you are just following someone else's directions, maybe you should post a link to them, if they include links to the files.  I think I saw some pretty detailed instructions on the xbmc or KinEmote forums, but haven't looked at them in too much detail since I don't have the device yet.

So you have no audio?  I thought I had seen on the CI labs that there is an audio driver, but have yet to hear anything about someone successfully using the microphone. 

[Wanilton]

James,

I believe they are the files found at this address
http://code.google.com/p/kinemote/downloads

These files already have the necessary drivers, then connect to the Kinect it automatically installs the drivers.

Wanilton

[Foggy]

Hi,

Sorry for the confusion.

Wanilton has sent the correct link.
When you are ready download the install notes *.pdf (Same link)
Make sure you install the files in the sequence shown

Here is th link regarding the comment about the Audio driver
http://www.kinemote.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11

Best wishes.

[jitterjames]

Thanks Foggy and Wanilton,

I look forward to playing with it soon.

It's too bad about the audio.  I am surprised that it was not one of the first things they figured out, but I guess the "sex factor" is not as high as with the motion tracking.

[Foggy]

Yes it is - but I think it is only a matter of time.

From what I have read the built in audio system of the Kinect is really good - 4 mics and some impressive noise canceling.
https://groups.google.com/group/openkinect/browse_thread/thread/c3db399d704e3a1b/facddef8e62558dc?#facddef8e62558dc


Best wishes.

[jitterjames]

OK.  I got it. (I came very close to not getting it because they were officially out of stock when I got to futureshop).  Pretty cool device.  Installation was a snap, and the Kinemote software works great.  The Kinect iteself seems to work well and is responsive.

The flashing green light, although small and not too bright is still annoying once you notice it flashing at you, I can't tear my eyes away! Flash, flash, flash...  where's that masking tape?

In terms of controlling xbmc with KinEmote, it is, (not surprisingly), almost totally useless!  Even with a lot of practice, I can't see this ever being a good replacement for a remote!  If I had not other options, I guess I could learn to make due.

Ok, so now I have to think about this.  Maybe there is some way to make this useful if combined with VoxCommando.  The hand gestures work OK for scrolling.  Trying to use the Kinect when actually watching video is very risky.  It is way too easy to do something accidentally, either stopping, exiting, or fast forwarding or rewinding without meaning to.  About the only useful KinEmote command that seems safe to use when watching a movie is pause...  A gesture that would pause the video and turn VC on could be good...

I will look at the KinEmote software first, to see if I can sent info from KinEmote to VC and back again.  In the mean time, if anyone has any conceptual ideas on how the two can be make to work together, I'm curious to hear them.  Anyone is welcome to suggest things, but I feel right now, that to really come up with something good, you kind of need to have played with both VC and KinEmote.  It is hard to explain.  I'm also going to keep playing with it.  Maybe I'll get better at it.

the fact that it works at all is incredibly cool!

The gears are grinding, but it sounds like I need some oil...
 

[Wanilton]

James,

Cool report, questions for you:

What driver you used?
The audio of kinect work?

When you have time make a video showing what it could do with Kinect in terms of control of XBMC, even precarious, I would like to see as  your experience with it.

thanks,
Wanilton

[jitterjames]

I did exactly what Froggy said, using the link you provided.  No problems at all with the drivers, except that at some point (I think after I plugged the Kinect in) I got a report that not all drivers installed.  There were 3 that installed but an error occurred and the Audio driver didn't install.  That was expected.  I think the geniuses are still trying to crack it.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but apparently they are hard to get in Canada.  When I got to the store there were none on the shelves.  I saw 1 in a box on a cart with a bunch of other stuff.  I asked a saleman if there were any and he said, "No, two other people just asked me the same question, there are none left".  So I asked him about the one on the cart.  It seems that it was one that someone had returned, that had not been put back on the shelf yet, so I got lucky.

The Kinect comes with a power supply.  No problems there.  I think if you have a 360-S you can plug it in directly to that with out the extra power supply.

I can make a video, but it will not be any different from the one on the KinEmote site.  Let me see if I can do something more interesting with VC and the Kinemote first.

[Foggy]

Hi,

I can't sleep - so I thought I would spend my time thinking about your comments.

Glad you manged to get it and the install went well.

Just a couple of links for you to keep an eye on - it's all Greek to me but may help understand the development work going on.
http://groups.google.com/group/openkinect
http://groups.google.com/group/openni-dev

LED - Yes it did not take long to start to bug me. But I am pretty sure it will not be long before some one figures out how to switch them off.

Agreed - KinEmote has very limited use in controlling XBMC - other than it being a little cool - But your right, it takes a lot of practice - not cool.

I am going to ramble a bit now.

VoxCommando is much better at getting you to a menu, Go Home, Browse Artists, Browse Albums etc than Hand gesturing could ever be. In other words I know what I want - just go and do it.
VoxCommando is great if you know where you want to be or what you want.

Where I think Kinect could add some thing is in the scrolling - (Not sure what I want but it's here somewhere on this screen / menu) sort of thing.

One of the issues with KinEmote is that you have 2 planes (Back and Mid) and you have to stay in that plane whilst moving your hand for it to operate properly and then push forward to make a selection - its a bit like trying that trick of rubbing your tummy with one hand whilst rubbing your head with the other.
You don't need the other plane - if you want to go to another screen / menu - let VoxCommando get you there.

My initial thoughts are that because VoxCommando will get you where you want to be - it only needs one plane in order for you to "swipe" through a selection.
Example VoxCommando = VC

Where the possible selection is horizontal
VC - "Kinect Scroll Single" - The action would be short swipes to the left or right moving the cursor 1 step - Dropping your hand would end the session.
VC - "Kinect Scroll Page" - The action would be short swipes to the left or right moving the cursor several steps - Dropping your hand would end the session.

Where the possible selection is vertical
VC - "Kinect Scroll Single" - The action would be short swipes up or down moving the cursor 1 step - moving your hand to the right would end the session.
VC - "Kinect Scroll Page" - The action would be short swipes to up or down moving the cursor several steps -  moving your hand to the right would end the session.

Not sure about the best way to select - but perhaps just let VC - "Select"
For those that can do the tummy rub thing perhaps a push.

It would be great if the gestures could be screen contextual - in other words if the screen is only meant to scroll one way only allow those gestures appropriate.

It may well be that for Kinect to work properly we need a different skin ?

I do have one request if you can make it work before you look further at the gestures. You may have alluded to it.
VC - Start / Launch KinEmote and click Connect.
VC - Disconnect
VC - Connect
VC - Disconnect and close KinEmote
Or some thing along those lines.

Hope all my rambling make a little sense.

I think when the Audio is sorted and available it may have the potential to release us all from having to make do with our "compromised" microphones.

Just a last comment - Big well done to the folks who created KinEmote - anything said above is not meant to be a criticism.


Best wishes.

[Foggy]

Hi,

Not sure if you can do anything with this.

http://groups.google.com/group/openni-dev/browse_thread/thread/e5f3e861c812b1a0

The read-me suggests that Audio streams are now available - what ever that means.
https://github.com/PrimeSense/Sensor/tree/unstable

Best wishes.

[jitterjames]

Thanks for thinking out loud.  It definitely help me to think outside the tiny box that is my head.  I disagree quite strongly about the idea of your "scroll single" and "scroll page" commands.  The one thing that I have found does work quite well is KinEmote's ability to scroll faster if you move your hand further.  Maybe you find it too easy to scroll accidentally when you only wanted to move a single space?  Probably there should be some ability in KinEmote to adjust sensitivity for things like that.  Also if you need to use voice commands and hand gestures to accomplish something that simple it kind of defeats the purpose.  As it is you can use VC commands to scroll at different speeds, but because it can sometimes be a bit slow to stop scrolling it is not something I would use unless I had no choice.  There is also the command "go right 5" which is actually really useful, once you see what you want.

XBMC provides a certain amount of context information (if you request it) but not nearly as much as I would like, in a perfect world.  Of course it is possible that there is more information available that I haven't figured out how to tap into.  It might also be possible for a script to increase the amount of information available, but my forays into scripting for xbmc have been very short tests so far.

I also don't (personally) have a problem with the push to click concept on kinect, though you do have to be careful to push directly towards the camera.  This is easier if your TV, Chair, and Kinect are all centered on a line.  I was pushing to the center of my TV at one point but because everything was at funny angles KinEmote was registering lateral movement (x,y).

I also need practice establishing the location of the mid plan where I want it.  I'm not 100% sure what the rules are there.

Yes I'll work on those atomic commands that you listed (connect etc.)

I don't know anything about the code yet, but I can see a two hand solution, possibly being more powerful.  Possibly a bit harder to use, but not necessarily, and possibly less likely to make mistakes.  I can see moving my two hands together, for example, to "connect" and moving them apart to "dis-connect".  Just a thought, or instead of a back back, the position of your left hand could determine what mode the movements of the right hand were in...  I also wonder about "gestures" in the sense of actually drawing shapes in space.  Simple things like a circular motion, or a figure 8...  It may be that Kinect only provides x,y,z and it is up to us to apply algorithms to that info... in which case I'd have some reading to do!

For me the #1 thing that would make Kinect most useful to VC users would be a reliable way to use it to turn VC on and OFF, and mute system volume, to achieve the same effect as raising the Amulet, but without having to hold a remote.  Combined with a (hopefully) good microphone array... fingers crossed there.

[Foggy]

I will certainly defer to your judgment regarding scroll - the one thing I am sure of, is that your concepts of UI is much better than mine.

I must confess that I was using my lap top to display XBMC - which was situated to one side of the television - which is where the Kinect was. It may be that if I had every thing - Line of site it would be easier to get the scrolling right.

I hope next weekend I can install BootCamp (Win 7) on my Mac Mini and install it connected to and under the television. It all may fall in place then.

Thank you for your efforts.

Best wishes.

[DHHJ]

I don't have a Kinect but thought I would add some past experiences.....

I used to play around with Linux MCE and a Gyration Go air mouse. You could control the MCE app quite easily as the combination of motion plus buttons, enabled you to select, scroll and adjust quite well. Maybe a combination of two gestures or VC+Kinect simultaneously could offer some ideas?