Surround sound for all videos in XBMC

[MrWolf]

Hi gents,

Not really related to Vox this, so apologies to James if I've put this in the wrong place, though it is an XBMC issue I think.

I have my HTPC output the audio via the onboard sound to my Logitech z-5500, and my video via my graphics card to my projector.  See my dreadfully crude and probably unnecessary diagram.
[attachment=1]

If I set the Logitech receiver to Dolby pro logic II then I can get surround sound using all speakers for any movie (SD and HD).

If I set the Logitech receiver to 6 Channel direct then I can get Surround sound via all speakers, but only for HD movies, the SD movies come out the front speakers only.

My limited understanding is that 6 channel direct is allowing the PC to do the decoding, and when I have it switched to 6 channel direct I am getting true surround sound rather than simulated.  The true surround sound is far better than simulated, and the HD audio is spoiled if I leave the amplifier permanently set to Dolby pro II.

My problem is this:  I don't want to have to switch the amplifier between the two modes for every movie.  Is there no way to have the PC do the Dolby pro logic II encoding as and when it is required rather than keep switching the amp?

[jitterjames]

I guess every system is going to be different, and the number of ways you can set it up further expands the possibilities exponentially.  I have XBMC set to pass-through to my Onkyo TX-509 amp (I happen to be using spdif optical but I dont' think that really matters too much) and my Onkyo is smart enough to switch to DTS direct surround when there is a surround signal available and if there is only two channel sound coming in it will use the last mode I had selected, which is usually (In my case) TV-Logic, a surround simulation mode that favours voices through the center channel so that my old ears have a better chance of understanding what people actually say.  I still have to switch to a music mode when I listen to music, but I am able to do this with a voice command using VC and the Onkyo plugin, or by sending an IR command.

So, I don't know if there is a way to set up XBMC and your Amp in a way that it will semi automatically / semi intelligently switch modes depending on the source signal.  I know that there is no slick way for VC to tell XBMC how to deal with audio.  This is something I would like to see but have not been able to figure out, and I think it just doesn't exist.  You have to actually go to the xbmc audio settings.

Does your amp take network commands?  If not, do you have some way to blast IR signals?  You have a Halx (Hali) don't you?  You could maybe detect the type of video somehow and have Hali automatically send the IR code to your receiver to switch to the correct mode...

[xtermin8r]

Hi MrWolf

You have a Halx (Hali) don't you?  You could maybe detect the type of video somehow and have Hali automatically send the IR code to your receiver to switch to the correct mode...

James could be right here, if there is a way to detect the audio stream in the video by using a python script, then the same python script can easily send a hali IR command to your dolby digital amp to switch it to the correct input.

[MrWolf]

Thanks guys,

Sounds like a wise way forwards.  Though I might have an issue with it in that the Dobly effects on the amp scroll through with a button rather than are selectable, e.g. I have to press the same button 3 times to get to Dolby Pro LogicII, and from there 2 times to get to 6 channel direct. (the number of times here is a guess)

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking.  You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

I do have a HALX/HALI so it is still plausible that I could have the HALX scroll 3 times or 2 times depending on what mode it was in last, it all depends rather ridiculously on whether there is an odd or even number of modes.

Any idea how I might be able to generate the event?  My knowledge of Python scripts ends where it begins.

Thanks,

-P

[Kalle]

Thanks guys,

Sounds like a wise way forwards.  Though I might have an issue with it in that the Dobly effects on the amp scroll through with a button rather than are selectable, e.g. I have to press the same button 3 times to get to Dolby Pro LogicII, and from there 2 times to get to 6 channel direct. (the number of times here is a guess)

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking.  You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

I do have a HALX/HALI so it is still plausible that I could have the HALX scroll 3 times or 2 times depending on what mode it was in last, it all depends rather ridiculously on whether there is an odd or even number of modes.

Any idea how I might be able to generate the event?  My knowledge of Python scripts ends where it begins.

Thanks,

-P

Hi MrWolf, if you change the audio mode always with VC, I have a solution that VC knows which mode was the last mode. You can use a logic command that alows VC to write the last mode in a txt-file and scrape/read it next time if you need it.
Let me know if you need a start with this command.

Kalle

[xtermin8r]

@MrWolf

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking.  You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

i think it may be a good idea to try an optical cable first.

[jitterjames]

Absolutely, if you aren't using a digital cable, and it is an option, it is the first thing I would try.  It doesn't really matter what kind of digital.  It could be optical, coax, or HDMI.

Only downside to doing this is that you'll lose surround in your games unless you have a high end sound card that can live encode to 5.1

Otherwise, if you keep the analog (3 analog stereo cables?) Then maybe there is a setting in XBMC that will accomplish what you want.  I know there is an option to output stereo signals to all speakers, but I don't know what method it uses.  Or maybe there is a virtual surround option in your sound card settings...

I don't know about your amp, but often there are more IR codes it can understand than just the ones on the remote.  It may be possible to set the mode directly if you can find these codes online.  Or you could experiment by looking at all the codes you know and then trying some codes in the same range to see if they do anything.

[MrWolf]

Thanks gents,

Hope you all had a good Christmas.  A friend at work gave me his old sound card randomly yesterday so I will try the software that comes with that, but failing that I shall plug the optical cable in.  If you don't hear from me then it means all is well.  Otherwise I shall make a nuisance of myself as usual

Happy new year!

-P

[jitterjames]

please let us know if you do get it working so we can start sleeping at night again.

if the optical cable is an option why would you resist it?  Shouldn't it provide better quality, while offering the bonus of reducing the clutter back there?

[MrWolf]

Ha ha ha.  Indeed, I only posted again to prevent the anxiety attacks that you almost certainly were experiencing.

So, the reason I haven't used the optical cable is because the optical port on the Surround system is currently occupied by my Xbox.  The Xbox is being gradually replaced by Steam on my PC, but I am yet to complete the transition so I am reluctant to spend £40 on an Optical switch like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/InLine%C2%AE-Digital-TOSlink-Optical-Selector/dp/B004YPSRC0/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1357222430&sr=8-11

But I am similarly reluctant as an automation enthusiast to crawl under my bed to swap the cable over when I want to use the Xbox.

1st world problems 

Neesha and I will be looking at getting our own place early this year rather than living in my mates back room.  Though I have created a palace out of it I think it's time to step up to a fully automated entire house, rather than a fully automated bedroom and I shall likely look at other audio solutions then anyway.  That little Logitech system is incredible, but it will probably be relegated to the bedroom when we get our own place and I shall have a full amp and separates downstairs to connect my xbox and main PC to.

I shall hit you guys up when that time comes to discuss best (and cheapest) possible solutions to wiring, number of mics, number of PC's, best PC's for controlling just lighting/best use of my HALX etc.  Gonna be an enormous project for me and it's going to drive my good lady insane :p

-P

[jitterjames]

good to have something to look forward to.

I would still plug in the optical once to see if it is even a viable solution.  Then maybe take another look on Amazon for a similar but much cheaper solution.  Maybe this would work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HQ-Optical-TOSlink-Port-Switch/dp/B000QRI2EI/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357223876&sr=1-3

[MrWolf]

I shall hook it up tonight, it would be nice just to see if the difference in quality is noticeable.

I looked at that switch, but it's still a manual task to turn the nob, and it would again need to be under the bed unless I buy some longer cables to go with it and then add to what I have recently dubbed the snake pit.  (The undersie of my bed looks a bit like this...
http://www.wannafork.net/files/other/cabling/messy_cabling_05.jpg

The following suggests that it's not a very reliable unit either...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B000QRI2EI/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0&isremote=0

The cheapest IR one I could find was the one I posted.

We'll see how tonight goes and I'll report back.

-P

[MrWolf]

OK.  Managed to get the sound card connected by Optical.  Couldn't get all the speakers to work when testing.

Switched audio on PC to 2 speaker configuration after reading another forum and now I get sound from all speakers.  They said something about the sound card only being able to output in stereo via the optical port which to me seems completely mad!

Thing is, it sounds phenomenal, so I don't get it.  Do I have true surround sound or not??  My feeling is that I don't and this is just the Logitech speaker system doing a really (really really) good job of converting the stereo.

Second issue, for some reason now I get no sound from Vox Commando.  All my beeps and noises and TTS is silent.  Oddly sometimes it makes all the noises when I close XBMC like they were queuing!?  I've had it before but can't remember how I fixed it, any ideas?

-P
   

[MrWolf]

Switched XBMC to 2.1 speaker setting and I get my sounds back for VC, but the surround sound from the speakers then becomes crap/non-existent.  Very frustrating!

Rather worryingly I think this may be how I solved it before and that may be why I'm so blown away by the sound I'm getting now (because it was rubbish before).

Why would this be happening?

-P

[Kalle]

Switched XBMC to 2.1 speaker setting and I get my sounds back for VC, but the surround sound from the speakers then becomes crap/non-existent.  Very frustrating!

Rather worryingly I think this may be how I solved it before and that may be why I'm so blown away by the sound I'm getting now (because it was rubbish before).

Why would this be happening?

-P

Hi MrWolf, happy new year!
Bad to hear that you have problems with you sound    but I'm sure there is a solution.
I do not understand your configuration yet

1. You use soundcard (internal or external?) with TOS-Link output.
2. If you setup XBMC to surround 5.1, you can't hear any TTS from your pc-speaker.

perhaps this thread help you a bit: http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=479.msg3972#msg3972

Greetings Kalle