Messages

1

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 29, 2014, 01:41:54 PM »

Yes it's done in .NET so I'm sure they're very similar.  I don't think this software was intended to perform useful work, it's just meant to illustrate the fundamentals of working with audio in c# but when I saw this I immediately though of VC.  I'll download it and play around one of these days soon...

2

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 29, 2014, 12:50:42 PM »

ooooh STEREO AHAHAHA

I thought this might be a reference to the Steroids CLI and I was trying to piece together what this has to do with audio how it all might relate to VC. Dunno how I failed to connect the dots on that one...

I experimented a bit with VoiceMeeter ... What you need is an audio repeater (VAC comes with one) that receive the signal from the mic and output to another device, in this case virtual input line installed by VoiceMeeter

Wow, we're patching stuff all over the place now... 

BTW, anybody played with this thing at all?

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/482735/TCP-Audio-Streamer-and-Player-VoIP

AFAIK there's no android client for this but it might be fun to experiment with. With an android/ios client this would be perfect for a whole-home, all in-the-box tcp mic mixing solution.  I seriously need to learn to program ...

3

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 28, 2014, 02:09:32 PM »

HI Haddood-

Thanks for the tips. I've been trying to sort out how to add a hardware mic to the virtual input in VoiceMeeter but I've not yet figured it out. I feel like it's doable, I'm just failing to put the pieces together somehow.

Also, I know nothing about "steroids mix" so if you've got any links to share I'd be happy to see them.

Cheers... 

4

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Mele F10 PRO compatible with VoxCommando?

« on: September 27, 2014, 11:35:02 PM »

Mr. Wolf- how do you activate the mic on the F10 Pro? Is it a push-and-hold-to-talk situation, or do you press a button to un-mute the mic and leave it open until you're done talking? Can the mic be left open for prolonged periods of time?  I'm interested in this device for myself potentially, so I'd be excited to hear more about how it works...

5

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 27, 2014, 11:27:26 PM »

Just in the way of a general update, I've been having more luck recently with the built-in mic on my wall-mounted Asus MeMO pad now that the system has had more time to train up. The setup goes like this: MeMO Pad built-in mic w/ WO Mic server installed in the bedroom -> HTPC in the living room running the WO Mic client using VoiceMeeter for mic mixing inside the box, which will allow me to run a second mic using a separate driver with separate input levels. I'm now settling on what that second mic should be. I'm thinking I may try the Mele F10 Pro, based on positive reviews posted elsewhere on this forum. Also, since VoiceMeeter allows for multiple outputs, I'm running one set of outs to the home theatre in the regular way, with a second set of outputs feeding a little hidden Bluetooth speaker so I can hear feedback sounds from VC even when the home theatre is powered down.  The whole thing can run headless using Splashtop installed on the tablet and HTPC.

The only problems I have with the way the system works are that it takes a lot of management to keep all the networked components connected and running. Also VoiceMeeter limits me to two mics and two sets of outputs and I'd really like to have a third mic for my studio.  The open mic problem has become mostly a non-problem so I'm feeling good about that aspect of things.  The tablet mic responds with good accuracy even from across the room.

All-in-all I feel like I've made pretty good progress tuning everything and I've not spent a lot of money on gear that I wouldn't have spent even without VC in the mix. I do plan to keep testing different devices, so I'll keep posting from time-to-time to let others know of my progress. Hopefully it will help others to get their own VC systems up and going.   

6

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 13, 2014, 07:43:13 PM »

What I like about VC compared to relying on a bunch of apps is it is a one-stop shop.

I totally agree.  If I had all my touch controls under a single interface as well I'd be delighted. I wish I could trigger VC commands with touch using an Android widget. Touch Commando, if you will. You can sort of do this with VoxWav, once you've issued a few commands, but that's not really what the app is for...

Open-air is noble aim, and everyone here is very interested in seeing how various people address it, so it's great that we have these new threads popping up on the forum. I look forward to reading about more people's setups. It's probably more feasible for those with more disposable income, those who live in fairly quiet environments, etc.

I'm tantalizingly close, and I've not spent too much money on it either.  So far I've bought an $84 tablet which I will use no matter what, an $11 mic, a $6 trs to trrs adapter, a $12 tablet wall-mount and an $89 Windows 7 mini PC which was not strictly necessary.  I think I have maybe $12 wrapped up in Android apps.  This gets me, at any one time, as many as 2 open mics running on 2 instances of VC plus a copy of VoxWav; I thus have voice control over the lights in three rooms as well as two PCs, and the whole system is mirrored across both boxes so I really only need one PC up at any given time.  Voice command accuracy is acceptable (not perfect), even with the living room windows open (i live near a major freeway) and the TV on in the background.

The challenge at this stage is not voice recognition accuracy, but rather it's keeping everything up and connected over long stretches of time. I've got all the IP stuff pre-mapped inside my router and various things placed inside windows startup folders.  I'm using an app called Wakey to keep my Android tablets from going entirely to sleep. Still, the WO mic connection will drop spontaneously and usually fail to self-reconnect, and VoxWav is similarly touch-and-go though it's less of a problem because of the nature of the app.  I'm using Splashtop to remote administer the PCs so I don't have to get up to fiddle with them, but even so, I'm doing a awful lot of jiggering and juggling just to keep everything on and synced up.  I think a good use for VoxWav in my case is as a "voice interface of last resort", so to speak.  At some point maybe I can use it to run a script to trigger a sequence of events that starts and syncs things in a certain order when I need to do so, but I'm not there yet.

I also got round to testing some of my recording mics with VC to compare them with my $11 eBay mic.  The eBay mic is clearly better than the SM58 and EV 660 in my open-air application, and about on-par with the AKG c1000s. I've yet to try the AT2035 because I don't have an easy way to phantom power the mic without putting a mixer in-line.  I'll be staying with the eBay mic for voice recognition purposes, and I might even buy another before it's all over...


   

7

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Deployment Rationales for Whole Home Mic Systems

« on: September 13, 2014, 03:03:37 PM »

I decided to move some of my discussion here from the whole home thread I started in the mic recommendations forum now that this new sub-forum is going.  Thanks to the moderators for setting this up.

Hadood and Nime5ter started a useful side discussion I've been meaning to respond to, so I'd like to pick it back up here.  Just to get the discussion on track, Nime5ter's commented:

My own perspective is that the desire for an open-air mic solution is the main issue.

We have a few Androids (along with some Amulet remotes, some USB mics, etc.). We can, and do, use VoxWav anywhere in our 2-storey house to control VC -- it's not a problem for us because we're not trying to use our Androids as open/area mics. For us, these are a reliable, convenient, and affordable (since we're using them for multiple purposes anyhow) choice.

Someone recently asked James what kind of open mic solution he's using in the "Coming Home from Work" demo video. The answer is simple: None. Every time he's talking to the computer, he has a mobile device or Amulet in his hand. And yet it apparently seemed natural enough that someone watching the video didn't notice that.

For me, it doesn't feel inconvenient or awkward to pick up the mobile or tablet and click a button before talking, anymore than it feels inconvenient to pick up the phone to call someone or walk to the top of the stairs if I need someone to hear me at the bottom of the stairs.

Sometimes, I'll unthinkingly go "old school" and call out to James from another room to ask him to turn down the music or change the living room speakers to the outdoor speakers, etc. Then suddenly I'll think, "Why the heck am I doing that?" Wherever I am, I pick up my phone (or open Tellvox on my laptop if I'm in my office) and issue the command myself. It takes literally a few seconds, and for me, it's a million times simpler and more reliable than having to yell my command at a microphone across the room.

So, the preference to use some kind of always on hands-free open-air mic system is the main challenge.

A reliable hands-free solution seems like it would be particularly important for users with disabilities and mobility challenges, but that wouldn't necessarily have to be open-air. Whenever I think about this issue, that's the problem I am interested in finding a good solution for.

I think these observations are sound, and like James and Nim5ster I'm using multiple Android devices and laptops as controllers in my own test deployment.  And while Nime5ter's point about the convenience having tablets ready to hand is well taken, in my own personal setup using an Android device as a sort of "walkie-talkie" interface with which to interact with my other devices doesn't quite satisfy Occam's razor. This is to say that in addition to voice controls, each of my Android devices already has touch controls running as home screen widgets which I can use to directly control any device in the house.  Using VoxWav requires me to perform all the UI touching I would normally do with my widgets, and then on top of that I have to talk to the tablet, which adds an additional and mostly superfluous step to the process.  So my desire to have an open mic system stems from a more basic desire to add new control options to augment an already working system rather than replace the old touch system with something different. So far, Vangelis's boundary mic model has great appeal for me, I'm just not able to drop wire through the walls since I'm renting, so I require either an RF or an over-the-network solution for audio input.   

On a purely conceptual level, my interest in voice control is a function of my broader interest in the notion of "ubiquitous computing", which is the idea that almost everything in the built environment has a network attached computer of some sort in it or on it, which allows it to interact with most or all of the other objects in the system.  In my fantasy of an an ideally implemented lifestyle automation system I should be able to operate most any device in the system using either a graphical/touch interface, a speech interface, or a combination both.  Further, if done right, one mode of operation should not render another mode trivial just by dent of its existence. And while I'm fantasizing, I shouldn't have to be constantly locking and unlocking and rebooting and turning on and off and logging in and out of things all day long.  I just want to be able to spontaneously get things done in whatever way makes the most sense from within the context of whatever else I happen to be doing at the moment. If my hands are full of groceries, or if I'm chopping celery, or if I'm just too lazy to go grab a tablet out of the other room, then I want to use my voice wherever I'm standing without having to drop what I'm doing.  If it's late at night, or if someone is sleeping, or if a tablet is already in hand, touch controls make more sense. 

Anyway I'd like to hear more from others, not just about which pieces you're all using in your VC roll-out, but also how it should all fit together in the grand scheme of your imagination. 

     

8

"Open air" and "whole home" microphones / Re: Voice Shaper helps to improve setup in open-air mic system

« on: September 13, 2014, 02:11:23 AM »

Thanks for this, I'll try it out soon ... 

9

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 13, 2014, 01:50:19 AM »

I can corroborate James's assertion that VoxWav is not ideal for open mic use. There are lots of things I like about it, and it works well in ptt mode, but the intermittent nature of the audio stream makes it flaky in always-on mode.  Also if you're restarting Vox frequently (like when programming) you have to restart the always on feature each time you re-connect.  I've had better luck on the whole with WO mic, though I think Vox is the better app in many ways.

Today I received my most recent ultra-cheap mic in the mail and surprisingly I'm having decent luck with it attached to an Android tablet, casting audio to VC via WO Mic. After a bit of training I'm getting pretty reliable performance from several feet away, even with the tv on in the background. Too bad the WO client isn't multi-channel...   

This is the mic:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390866946296?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It's a little big, but it's not very acoustically sensitive so I'm not getting a lot of unwanted ambiance in my test recordings. It doesn't produce a lot of output gain but since VC doesn't do so well with high gain that's ok.  I'll keep playing but so far I'm pretty happy given what I spent (<$11 USD shipped). Only real gripe is I have to use a trs to trrs adaptor, which disables sound output from the tablet. 

10

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: AKG Professional Wireless System

« on: September 08, 2014, 09:49:26 PM »

I've not tried the WMS40 specifically, but I have some experience with NiMH batteries in wireless mics generally and they seem to work well enough. One big reason alkaline batteries are preferred is not the nominal voltage, but the fact that they have a predictable linear voltage trail as the battery discharges.  This makes it possible to monitor battery levels with a fair degree of accuracy using a little voltage-linked meter on the transmitter.  NiMH batteries tend to maintain a voltage plateau for the life of the battery and then suddenly fail.  In my experience with Sennheiser G3 and Shure ULX and DLX series mics, fully charged NiMH batteries appear to the system as half-discharged, and they stay like that until they eventually and cataclysmic-ally crap out. Lithium batteries do the same. In a presentation or performance context, this is a terrifying state of affairs since you never know when your show might tank.  In a non-critical situation like VC, it's probably not much of a problem, and the PT40 doesn't appear to have much in the way of a battery monitoring anyway.  I've heard some people claim that long-term use of NiMH batteries is bad for the hardware but I think that's probably nonsense.

Anyway, I'd like to know if Kalle's experience is different than mine. Is the WMS40 still in regular use, Kalle? Still like it? Have you tried using it as an area mic or are you just wearing it on your head?

11

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 08, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »

Well I got my new tablet and tiny mic and tried them out together. Sadly (and perhaps predictably) the little mic doesn't produce enough output to be useful for voice recognition; I think the impedance is too high for regular recording, though it works famously with my RTA apps.  I have another ultra-cheap mic on the way, and if that's not sufficient I'll be giving up on the el-cheapo mic approach.  The next step will be to dig into my stash of recording mics (AT2035, AKG c1000s, SM58, EV 660A, EV RE320) and see how they do. But even if I'm satisfied with the performance I'm disinclined to go this route on a permanent basis as I'm loath to litter the house with mic preamps and phantom power supplies and the like.  I'm also not thrilled about encumbering my recording mics for a purpose other than recording.

TBH, I now expect that none of these options will outperform the built-in mic on my laptop, and short of an elaborate hard-wired install as in i.e.,Vangelis's boundary mic rig, the next best option is to just have a bunch of computers all over the place running separate instances of VC. Still, I feel like lots of wall-mounted tablets sending audio over the network to a single instance VC is a most elegant, conceptually clear solution, so I plan to continue to pursue this route for at least a while longer.  I'm super-duper interested in hearing people's success stories in this realm, so if anyone is having good luck in a multi-room, open-mic deployment please let us hear about it.

12

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 04, 2014, 08:39:48 PM »

Hi Vangelis-

How are you handling wire runs in your deployment? Are you running mic cable through the plenum/attic and then down to an XLR wall plate? Or are you doing some kind of surface mount thing?  I rent, so I've not really been too keen to run wire through the wall, which is why I'm so interested in wireless options.  I've got mixers and microphones aplenty but running xlr all over the place is what's keeping me from pursuing boundary mics or PZMs or similar.  I also just sort of like the idea of "cheap-and-cheerful" for this kind of thing, but I'm always looking for new reasons to buy gear so I'd be very interested to know more about our install.

Are you using the gates heavily on the scm-410?  Has it been your experience that VC accuracy drops significantly as you begin summing more mics without the gates turned on?

13

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 03, 2014, 07:36:45 PM »

OK so I have some gadgets coming in the mail, which include (another) android tablet, a tiny PC, and these:

http://smile.amazon.com/Movo-MA100-Omni-Directional-Calibrated-Microphone/dp/B00LCIVLRK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1409782302&sr=8-3&keywords=movo+microphone

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00ADR2B84/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=P4UH7DQ1L9ET&coliid=I2Q0S6CZHBKDJX


I've also done a little more testing with VoxWav and after some tweaks I'm having better results than I was the other day. Raising the gate threshold really high and turning off UDP broadcast improved VoxWav's performance (dunno why UDP should matter, might be a coincidence), so I'm gonna try each of these little mics out an see how they compare with the built-in mics on my phone and the new tablet.  I'll report back on each mic soon, hopefully this weekend.

The over-arching strategy is going to be to hang a cheap tablet on the wall in each of the rooms where I want mics, which gives me touch controls and voice capture ganged together in each room where I want control. I'd like to see if I can get 3-4 instances of VoxWav to play nice with VC all at once, with the addition of possibly a boundary mic in the living room at some point.  I'd like to eventually be running the Vox computer in a headless way using Splashtop for access when I need to make changes to settings. 

We shall see...

14

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 02, 2014, 09:01:32 PM »

HI Kalle-

I actually have some of these Revolabs mics at my job and I've never been too fond of them, mostly because of the stupid wired-in li-poly packs in the mics, which tend to bubble and are not easily replaceable. They're expensive, but not crazy expensive if you're hell-bent having some. You can get a pair with a charger and receiver for about $500...

For my purposes, though, I need something that's commodity priced.

I'm sure the Pyle mics are crap-tacular, and there's essentially no QC, as one would expect at this price. I expect I'd have about even odds of getting a set that works, so I'd be operating in the land of calculated risk if I went ahead.  But the idea for the product is conceptually almost exactly what I want, and it's the only thing I've ever seen at almost any price that ticks all the boxes (except quality). I am afraid! But if they work it would be a cool proof of concept.

Anyway, there are still plenty of things that need done before I haul off and buy a bunch of mics. I'm just really interested in multi-room strategies since my home, small though it is, has multiple rooms...

15

What is a good microphone for speech recognition? / Re: Whole home mic system

« on: September 02, 2014, 06:33:46 PM »

No almost certainly no gates to be had here.  Do you have any experience with the summing of background noise and VC?  I'm wondering if the old strategy of just turning things right down might not do the trick. Another thing to test would be to stick an expander between the output of the mic and the computer input.  I actually have one of those in my collection so maybe if I get my courage together to buy these goofy mics I can stick it inline and document my results. It's not happening this month as I've already got a couple of Vox-related purchases in the pipe (with a purchase of VC itself OTW), but I'm intensely interested in the distributed microphone issue and I think working on it would be super fun.