Author Topic: Surround sound for all videos in XBMC (Read 17022 times)

MrWolf · « **on:** December 19, 2012, 06:25:59 AM »

Hi gents,

Not really related to Vox this, so apologies to James if I've put this in the wrong place, though it is an XBMC issue I think.

I have my HTPC output the audio via the onboard sound to my Logitech z-5500, and my video via my graphics card to my projector. See my dreadfully crude and probably unnecessary diagram.
[attachment=1]

If I set the Logitech receiver to Dolby pro logic II then I can get surround sound using all speakers for any movie (SD and HD).

If I set the Logitech receiver to 6 Channel direct then I can get Surround sound via all speakers, but only for HD movies, the SD movies come out the front speakers only.

My limited understanding is that 6 channel direct is allowing the PC to do the decoding, and when I have it switched to 6 channel direct I am getting true surround sound rather than simulated. The true surround sound is far better than simulated, and the HD audio is spoiled if I leave the amplifier permanently set to Dolby pro II.

My problem is this: I don't want to have to switch the amplifier between the two modes for every movie. Is there no way to have the PC do the Dolby pro logic II encoding as and when it is required rather than keep switching the amp?

jitterjames · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2012, 05:49:03 PM »

I guess every system is going to be different, and the number of ways you can set it up further expands the possibilities exponentially. I have XBMC set to pass-through to my Onkyo TX-509 amp (I happen to be using spdif optical but I dont' think that really matters too much) and my Onkyo is smart enough to switch to DTS direct surround when there is a surround signal available and if there is only two channel sound coming in it will use the last mode I had selected, which is usually (In my case) TV-Logic, a surround simulation mode that favours voices through the center channel so that my old ears have a better chance of understanding what people actually say. I still have to switch to a music mode when I listen to music, but I am able to do this with a voice command using VC and the Onkyo plugin, or by sending an IR command.

So, I don't know if there is a way to set up XBMC and your Amp in a way that it will semi automatically / semi intelligently switch modes depending on the source signal. I know that there is no slick way for VC to tell XBMC how to deal with audio. This is something I would like to see but have not been able to figure out, and I think it just doesn't exist. You have to actually go to the xbmc audio settings.

Does your amp take network commands? If not, do you have some way to blast IR signals? You have a Halx (Hali) don't you? You could maybe detect the type of video somehow and have Hali automatically send the IR code to your receiver to switch to the correct mode...

xtermin8r · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2012, 06:44:10 PM »

Hi MrWolf

Quote

You have a Halx (Hali) don't you? You could maybe detect the type of video somehow and have Hali automatically send the IR code to your receiver to switch to the correct mode...

James could be right here, if there is a way to detect the audio stream in the video by using a python script, then the same python script can easily send a hali IR command to your dolby digital amp to switch it to the correct input.

MrWolf · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2012, 05:46:02 AM »

Thanks guys,

Sounds like a wise way forwards. Though I might have an issue with it in that the Dobly effects on the amp scroll through with a button rather than are selectable, e.g. I have to press the same button 3 times to get to Dolby Pro LogicII, and from there 2 times to get to 6 channel direct. (the number of times here is a guess)

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking. You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

I do have a HALX/HALI so it is still plausible that I could have the HALX scroll 3 times or 2 times depending on what mode it was in last, it all depends rather ridiculously on whether there is an odd or even number of modes.

Any idea how I might be able to generate the event? My knowledge of Python scripts ends where it begins.

Thanks,

-P

Kalle · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2012, 08:32:21 AM »

Quote from: MrWolf on December 21, 2012, 05:46:02 AM

Thanks guys,

Sounds like a wise way forwards. Though I might have an issue with it in that the Dobly effects on the amp scroll through with a button rather than are selectable, e.g. I have to press the same button 3 times to get to Dolby Pro LogicII, and from there 2 times to get to 6 channel direct. (the number of times here is a guess)

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking. You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

I do have a HALX/HALI so it is still plausible that I could have the HALX scroll 3 times or 2 times depending on what mode it was in last, it all depends rather ridiculously on whether there is an odd or even number of modes.

Any idea how I might be able to generate the event? My knowledge of Python scripts ends where it begins.

Thanks,

-P

Hi MrWolf, if you change the audio mode always with VC, I have a solution that VC knows which mode was the last mode. You can use a logic command that alows VC to write the last mode in a txt-file and scrape/read it next time if you need it.
Let me know if you need a start with this command.

Kalle

xtermin8r · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2012, 04:17:22 PM »

@MrWolf

Quote

I wonder if I connect it via optical instead of those 3 analogue cables whether or not the amp will be able to automatically switch or whether that's just wishful thinking. You'd think Logitech would have thought about this and made it automatically detect!!

i think it may be a good idea to try an optical cable first.

jitterjames · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2012, 08:23:32 AM »

Absolutely, if you aren't using a digital cable, and it is an option, it is the first thing I would try. It doesn't really matter what kind of digital. It could be optical, coax, or HDMI.

Only downside to doing this is that you'll lose surround in your games unless you have a high end sound card that can live encode to 5.1

Otherwise, if you keep the analog (3 analog stereo cables?) Then maybe there is a setting in XBMC that will accomplish what you want. I know there is an option to output stereo signals to all speakers, but I don't know what method it uses. Or maybe there is a virtual surround option in your sound card settings...

I don't know about your amp, but often there are more IR codes it can understand than just the ones on the remote. It may be possible to set the mode directly if you can find these codes online. Or you could experiment by looking at all the codes you know and then trying some codes in the same range to see if they do anything.

MrWolf · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2013, 08:21:17 AM »

Thanks gents,

Hope you all had a good Christmas. A friend at work gave me his old sound card randomly yesterday so I will try the software that comes with that, but failing that I shall plug the optical cable in. If you don't hear from me then it means all is well. Otherwise I shall make a nuisance of myself as usual

Happy new year!

-P

jitterjames · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2013, 08:49:45 AM »

please let us know if you do get it working so we can start sleeping at night again.

if the optical cable is an option why would you resist it? Shouldn't it provide better quality, while offering the bonus of reducing the clutter back there?

MrWolf · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2013, 10:34:20 AM »

Ha ha ha. Indeed, I only posted again to prevent the anxiety attacks that you almost certainly were experiencing.

So, the reason I haven't used the optical cable is because the optical port on the Surround system is currently occupied by my Xbox. The Xbox is being gradually replaced by Steam on my PC, but I am yet to complete the transition so I am reluctant to spend £40 on an Optical switch like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/InLine%C2%AE-Digital-TOSlink-Optical-Selector/dp/B004YPSRC0/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1357222430&sr=8-11

But I am similarly reluctant as an automation enthusiast to crawl under my bed to swap the cable over when I want to use the Xbox.

1st world problems

Neesha and I will be looking at getting our own place early this year rather than living in my mates back room. Though I have created a palace out of it I think it's time to step up to a fully automated entire house, rather than a fully automated bedroom and I shall likely look at other audio solutions then anyway. That little Logitech system is incredible, but it will probably be relegated to the bedroom when we get our own place and I shall have a full amp and separates downstairs to connect my xbox and main PC to.

I shall hit you guys up when that time comes to discuss best (and cheapest) possible solutions to wiring, number of mics, number of PC's, best PC's for controlling just lighting/best use of my HALX etc. Gonna be an enormous project for me and it's going to drive my good lady insane :p

-P

jitterjames · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2013, 10:41:03 AM »

good to have something to look forward to.

I would still plug in the optical once to see if it is even a viable solution. Then maybe take another look on Amazon for a similar but much cheaper solution. Maybe this would work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HQ-Optical-TOSlink-Port-Switch/dp/B000QRI2EI/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357223876&sr=1-3

MrWolf · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2013, 10:52:16 AM »

I shall hook it up tonight, it would be nice just to see if the difference in quality is noticeable.

I looked at that switch, but it's still a manual task to turn the nob, and it would again need to be under the bed unless I buy some longer cables to go with it and then add to what I have recently dubbed the snake pit. (The undersie of my bed looks a bit like this...
http://www.wannafork.net/files/other/cabling/messy_cabling_05.jpg

The following suggests that it's not a very reliable unit either...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B000QRI2EI/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0&isremote=0

The cheapest IR one I could find was the one I posted.

We'll see how tonight goes and I'll report back.

-P

MrWolf · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2013, 05:38:00 PM »

OK. Managed to get the sound card connected by Optical. Couldn't get all the speakers to work when testing.

Switched audio on PC to 2 speaker configuration after reading another forum and now I get sound from all speakers. They said something about the sound card only being able to output in stereo via the optical port which to me seems completely mad!

Thing is, it sounds phenomenal, so I don't get it. Do I have true surround sound or not?? My feeling is that I don't and this is just the Logitech speaker system doing a really (really really) good job of converting the stereo.

Second issue, for some reason now I get no sound from Vox Commando. All my beeps and noises and TTS is silent. Oddly sometimes it makes all the noises when I close XBMC like they were queuing!? I've had it before but can't remember how I fixed it, any ideas?

-P

MrWolf · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2013, 06:03:46 PM »

Switched XBMC to 2.1 speaker setting and I get my sounds back for VC, but the surround sound from the speakers then becomes crap/non-existent. Very frustrating!

Rather worryingly I think this may be how I solved it before and that may be why I'm so blown away by the sound I'm getting now (because it was rubbish before).

Why would this be happening?

-P

Kalle · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2013, 06:23:09 PM »

Quote from: MrWolf on January 03, 2013, 06:03:46 PM

Switched XBMC to 2.1 speaker setting and I get my sounds back for VC, but the surround sound from the speakers then becomes crap/non-existent. Very frustrating!

Rather worryingly I think this may be how I solved it before and that may be why I'm so blown away by the sound I'm getting now (because it was rubbish before).

Why would this be happening?

-P

Hi MrWolf, happy new year!
Bad to hear that you have problems with you sound

but I'm sure there is a solution.
I do not understand your configuration yet

1. You use soundcard (internal or external?) with TOS-Link output.
2. If you setup XBMC to surround 5.1, you can't hear any TTS from your pc-speaker.

perhaps this thread help you a bit: http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=479.msg3972#msg3972

Greetings Kalle

MrWolf · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2013, 07:00:41 PM »

Hello mate. It's an internal sound card.

Tried setting XBMC to 5.1 just now, no luck I'm afraid.

-P

Kalle · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2013, 07:21:15 PM »

Quote from: MrWolf on January 03, 2013, 07:00:41 PM

Hello mate. It's an internal sound card.

Tried setting XBMC to 5.1 just now, no luck I'm afraid.

-P

If you have a chance to get a external usb audiocard (like terratec or creative) use it. Sometimes you can find a cheap one on ebay. A terratec Aureon 5.1 or 7.1 is a good one.

jitterjames · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2013, 11:26:34 PM »

If you want to get the real deal and your video source file contains 5.1 audio you should set XBMC to use optical and passthrough audio and it should give you true surround sound, and no you won't be able to hear TTS from VC any more because XBMC will simply be sending the original audio bitstream to the amp, unmolested. When this happens, no other pc sounds can play. Sometimes they will get "stored up" and play when you stop the movie. It sucks but I don't know of any solution, except that I use two audio outputs. I send my TTS to my TV and XBMC to my Amp. This will only happen if your source is digital multichannel. It should not be an issue when listening to stereo stuff unless you use WASAPI which also takes over the audio and does not allow other sounds through.

If you send two channel audio to your amp through optical, then I think your amp should still be able to upconvert it to surround sound, or at least to all-channel-stereo, but without knowing your amp or being there to play with it I can't say for sure.

Are you using the generic XMBC Eden?

Here are my audio settings for Frodo, but Eden is similar:

MrWolf · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2013, 04:45:35 AM »

Thanks mate,

I tried setting mine like that but I just got a stuttering picture (for no apparent reason) and no sound.

I tried literally every 5.1 configuration possible, but the only thing that worked properly was when I set it to analogue 2.0. Why analogue would work when optical is digital I really don't know.

I'm happy with the sound now though, tried it out for gaming and XBMC, so thanks for all the help. The only remaining issue is the lack of TTS and sounds for Vox

My projector has an inbuilt speaker and is connected via HDMI to the graphics card, could I send the TTS to the projector's little speaker? How are you sending it to your TV? I thought the PC's audio would have to be sent via the sound card to whatever it was connected to, I don't know how you could send all programmes audio via one card to one unit, but send Vox to another? Is it a setting in Vox somewhere?

I have a nasty feeling you're going to tell me you have two separate PC's for the two different tasks.

-P

MrWolf · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2013, 04:53:35 AM »

Think I got it. It's in TTS settings I can send it via HDMI, will try it when I get home.

I guess I can't tell VOX to send the wav's to the projector though? I presume you have him speak to you when you call his name, where as I have star trek sound.

Just to clarify though, I don't have the "real deal" at the moment, so shouldn't I be able to play both VOX and XBMC simultaneously?

-P

Kalle · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2013, 05:27:16 AM »

Quote from: MrWolf on January 04, 2013, 04:53:35 AM

Think I got it. It's in TTS settings I can send it via HDMI, will try it when I get home.

I guess I can't tell VOX to send the wav's to the projector though? I presume you have him speak to you when you call his name, where as I have star trek sound.

Just to clarify though, I don't have the "real deal" at the moment, so shouldn't I be able to play both VOX and XBMC simultaneously?

-P

question: If you want send the TTS to your projector speaker or to an separate speaker for TTS here is a perfect solution.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-Portable-Wireless-Audio-System/dp/B00475XR9U/ref=sr_1_68?ie=UTF8&qid=1357292126&sr=8-68

without a mic funktion: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lindy-USB-Wireless-Audio-Extender/dp/B006NYG7UY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_computers_6

I use it sometimes by my self and it works great. The range is max. 30 feet and you can use it also as Wireless headset.
If you need more info ask me

It is a review here in the forum available (only in german but you can use google translater): http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=595.0

MrWolf · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:29:07 AM »

Hi Kalle,

Thanks for all your advice!

I think the projector should be able to receive the audio via the HDMI cable that is already connected to it from my graphics card, so I think it will at least send the TTS.

My question to James is whether he knows of a way that I could send the Wav files to the projector also.

That audio extender looks absolutely awesome though and I will be buying at least 2 of them so that I can talk to the PC from any room when I get my new house. Might buy a couple of them now!

-P

Kalle · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:40:26 AM »

Quote from: MrWolf on January 04, 2013, 06:29:07 AM

Hi Kalle,

Thanks for all your advice!

I think the projector should be able to receive the audio via the HDMI cable that is already connected to it from my graphics card, so I think it will at least send the TTS.

My question to James is whether he knows of a way that I could send the Wav files to the projector also.

That audio extender looks absolutely awesome though and I will be buying at least 2 of them so that I can talk to the PC from any room when I get my new house. Might buy a couple of them now!

-P

you can send the real TTS voice from VC to HDMI with audio settings.

jitterjames · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2013, 03:41:02 PM »

you can set the TTS output device on the fly from VC using the action:

TTS.SetOutput

Wav files will probably play on whatever is set as the default audio output device as defined in windows sound settings. Make sure you have HDMI enabled and working and then set it as the default.

jitterjames · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2013, 03:59:34 PM »

Quote from: MrWolf on January 04, 2013, 04:53:35 AM

Just to clarify though, I don't have the "real deal" at the moment, so shouldn't I be able to play both VOX and XBMC simultaneously?

Confuso say: "All fish can swim, but not all swimmers are fish".

There are too many variables. If the stars should align correctly then maybe we can both find a free moment to take a look at your system together using skype and/or teamviewer. For me the stars will be all out of whack for the next little while though, so here are some things to look at:

If your playback is jerky in XBMC try setting XBMC to use "true" fullscreen. This has it's own problems of course because then VC OSD does not work! For me I am forced to use True fullscreen (don't know why) in order to play back 24p content (which is about 95% of my library.) at true 24p instead of at 60p. This means I don't see OSD messages when using XBMC. It's not a huge deal for me since I only use XBMC for video and have it closed the rest of the time.

If you are only getting 2 channel stereo even though you are using optical then either you don't have pass-through set up correctly, or your receiver is not able to handle the origianl audio data from the file you are playing. (I suspect your receiver may be the weak link here since it seems that it is not a "real" receiver, or that's the impression I get.)

If you are only getting stereo sound but you can't hear TTS, wav or other windows audio then make sure you have XBMC set to use a directX audio device and not WASAPI.

MrWolf · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2013, 10:47:44 AM »

The Logitech system is probably one of the best PC speaker systems you'll ever find according to a lot of forums, though they maybe perhaps talking about the speakers not the control console, I still find it difficult though to believe that the Logitech system could be the cause of my fault as it is a reasonably expensive set designed specifically for interaction with a PC.

Thanks to everyone for their advice, it led to a few really good sounding setups, specifically SPDIF sounded great and when connected via Optical I was able to get the system to accurately decide whether to bother to apply Dolby ProII or whether it was a genuine HD 5.1 source and didn't require it. Main problem with that was that XBMC soft mute wouldn't work because XBMC is allowing the Logitech to control literally everything including volume. Secondly there were issues with the wav sounds and TTS whenever watching a genuine 5.1 movie (they would queue up as previously described). I managed to get the PC to send TTS and Wavs to the projector via HDMI whenever a 5.1 movie was playing, but with regard soft muting so that the Mic can hear me properly; the logitech has no IR codes to set specific volumes (I can only get it to dial down very gradually by sending 'volume down' multiple times) I decided SPDIF pass through was just not feasible and went back to the drawing board.

Right then, following hours and hours of testing and swapping settings I believe I have found the best possible setup for Logitech z-5500's when used with XBMC and if you intend to have Vox commando perform soft mute (being as that doesn't work with SPDIF pass through). You wouldn't believe the amount of seemingly unrelated and even seemingly more accurate settings that have resulted in the following symptoms...

Odd hissing when nothing is playing
Barely any surround in the rear speakers
No Wav or TTS sounds
Soft mute not working
Stereo only in anything not 5.1 instead of Dolby conversion
No center speaker in any true 5.1 sources but everything else working
Unnecessary Dolby applied to full 5.1 sources

The settings are included below for my own reference and for anyone that may be struggling and googling for an answer...

XBMC
Direct sound Primary sound driver
Analogue 5.1

Xonar DG Audio Center
2 Channels
PCM 96khz
2 Speakers
SPDIF Out ticked

Logitech speakers
Effect 6 channel direct
Input Direct

Sound (Control panel)
Default Device set to Speakers
Speakers configured for 2.0
Properties -> Advanced -> Set Default format to 24 bit 192000 Hz

Right then, time to go try out the wireless audio box that Kalle recommended to see if I can get audio from the upstairs PC in the kitchen, it arrived today

Thanks again everybody, as always you have pandered to typical ineptitude.

-P

MrWolf · « **Reply #26 on:** March 06, 2013, 05:34:34 PM »

Just an update on this.

Moving to XBMC Frodo ruined all this hard work because they removed the option for default audio device in their sound properties.

I have literally just tried every combination of settings again to get back to having decent surround whilst still getting TTS and Wavs through the same speakers as XBMC.

I thought I'd share my settings again being as they are randomly different from the last set and once again seem to be the only working combination...

XBMC
Direct sound SPDIF Passthrough device (Asus Xonar DG Audio Device)
Analogue 5.1
Play GUI sounds always

Xonar DG Audio Center
2 Channels
PCM 96khz
2 Speakers
SPDIF Out ticked

Logitech speakers
Effect PLII Movie
Input Optical

Sound (Control panel)
Default Device set to S/PDIF Pass-through Device
Properties -> Advanced -> Add Supported format for DTS Audio, Dobly Dgital, Sample rate 96khz, set default format to maximum (2 channel, 24 bit, 48000 Hz, (Studio Quality)
Exclusive mode both boxes ticked

It has once again been a total nightmare, but it now sounds great. I may be imagining it but it sounds better than with Eden so perhaps it was worth the stress, just gotta finish re-coding all my VOX XBMC commands that the upgrade to FRODO screwed up! Thank god for James!

-P