VoxCommando
Microphones and Speech Recognition in General => "Open air" and "whole home" microphones => Topic started by: Haddood on January 02, 2015, 06:42:32 PM
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following the steps of Keith in http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=1757.0
I am starting this thread to document my setup using Gentner Clearone XAP800, and to discuss obstacles and solutions ...
this should apply to AP400, AP800 and XAP400... these are extremely advanced matrix mixers ... at the time of this post they are flooding ebay .. you can get one from 25$ and up (I saw it for more than 1000)... I believe the reason is that in US, these are being phased out from schools or government setups to be replaced by newer models (according to one reply from ebay seller)...
if you are planning to implement a permanent open-air mic at some point, I highly recommend that you grab one or 2 (depending on how many input signals you need - more on that later) .. boundary mics can be found on ebay for reasonable prices as well (I managed a deal of 4 for 60$ including shipping)... the irony, the various cables I am buying to pass through my apartment are more expensive than the device and the mics :o :o
the reason I decided to go for these ...
1. those mics are crazy sensitive ... they can hear me whispering from about 10 feet (3m)
2. multiple active mics (up to 8 in XAP 800) + 4 inputs line level on one device. Devices can be chained to get even more !!!
3. adaptive noise cancellation, which is doing great in my initial testing
4. echo cancellation ... make your music, tv, pc ..etc. go through the device and it can filter it out from what it hears through the mic... so VC won't react to speech coming from a speaker ...
5. with 1 or 2 devices and multiple sound cards (depending on number of rooms and stereo or mono signal) these devices can double as audio routers ... meaning VC can send music on sound card 1 to bedroom , and radio on another to kitchen, while watching Blu-ray 5.1 in the living ... or send the music to all rooms ... that applies as well to VC responses ...
status and control ports ... these can be used easily to create control panels around the house to trigger certain setups (scenes) ... those can be routed back to PC through com port
6. and a very important feature, all the features of the device can be controlled through com port by PC
7. gating ... means VC can now the command from which room (although one guy blogged that he disabled this feature, but I believe right configuration can make it work)
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countless thanks to Nime5ter, James and Kalle for their help ...
PY code is now (kind of) fully functional. it will raise gating event to identify which mic is sending voice stream. this is used to identify the location of the speaker and act accordingly .... as well it can be used to send commands to XAP family products (can be modified to work with AP family easily) ... for the command that sends 0/1/2 for off/on/toggle the script will generate an event confirming the execution of the command and reporting back the new state in case of toggle. for all other commands they will be executed but feedback event is not working or will raise with wrong feedback. this is due to the varying structure and number of parameters to cover all XAP commands ...
attached is sample group that uses the script ...
feedback is always appreciated ...
to setup the system, follow these steps:
Step 1: Jumper the IO port 1 on the back of XAP as following (modify as you see fits, I use this setup because I have 4 mics)
pin 17 ----> pin 1
pin 18 ----> pin 3
pin 19 ----> pin 5
pin 20 ----> pin 7
( i found a 25 D male connector in my computer junk... solders the pins as above)
Step 2: Set up the actions in GPIO builder in G ware
for pin 1, in active low : execute string 0
for pin 3, in active low : execute string 1 ...etc.
Step 3: build the strings in g-ware command strings
for string 0: \nXAP800.Gate&&0&&0\n
for string 1: \nXAP800.Gate&&0&&1\n .... etc. the first payload is the device ID (for future use) and the second payload is the gate ID
if the script loads and establish communication correctly, you should start having Gate events generated whenever a new gate triggered (if the same gate triggered multiple times, only one event will be generated - this is by design, to avoid bombarding VC with events)
Step 4 Setting up gating control
from inputs screen click on each mic "gate" button and set it up as part of group A (or any group) (right part of the image below)
from gating control (the icon with 3 mics) set that group to have Max One mic (Left part of the image below)
this will make sure that VC will listen to only one mic if many people talk at the same time in different rooms
first obstacle; feeding the mic gate status back to VC through com port ...
I managed to feedback by installing jumpers in the back ports ... I Can see the data coming through com port ... but I can't use it in VC
1. installing http://www.eterlogic.com/Products.VSPE.html to give access to the same com port to many programs .. and it gives com port monitor
2. send the info back to VC
- through com port to UDP tunnel ...
ideally would be a python script to avoid installing new software and get the possibility to filter the data ... till now this solution causes VC to crush :(
#Gentner Serial Communication Script
#version 0.6 will excute all commands but raise event only with queries
#and commands that has 0/1/2 as parameter. Support string feedback if starts
#XAP800.Gate, requires hardware jumpers installed on IO 1
#Based on read/write to serial port by James&Kalle
#you must have enabled the python-plugin in VoxCommando
#start this python script with VoxCommando
#Many thanks for the support from Nime5ter, James and kalle
#without their help this wouldn't be possible
import clr
clr.AddReference('System')
from System import *
from System.Collections.Generic import *
import socket
def sendUDP (MESSAGE, UDP_IP, UDP_PORT):
sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM) # UDP
sock.sendto(MESSAGE, (UDP_IP, UDP_PORT))
lastData="xyz"
lastCommand="xyz"
def Ondata (sender, event):
global lastData
global lastCommand
sData = sender.ReadLine ()
#print sData
if (sData[:11] == "XAP800.Gate")and(sData != lastData):
lastData = sData
sendUDP("vc.triggerEvent&&"+lastData, "127.0.0.1", 33000)
if (len (sData) > 5) and (sData[:3] == "OK>" ):## if length is 5, it is \lOK>\s from previous command
sData = sData[4:-1] ## trim OK> and \l at the end
if (len (sData) == len (lastCommand) ) and (sData[:-1]==lastCommand[:-1]): ## this probably a command Response
sendUDP("VC.TriggerEvent&&XAP800.Response&&"+lastCommand+"&&"+sData[-1:], "127.0.0.1", 33000)
elif (sData[:len (lastCommand)] == lastCommand ): ## this is probably a query command Response
sendUDP("VC.TriggerEvent&&XAP800.Response&&"+lastCommand+"&&"+sData[1+len (lastCommand):], "127.0.0.1", 33000)
if (sData[:5] == "ERROR"):
sendUDP("VC.TriggerEvent&&XAP800.Error&&"+lastCommand+"&&"+sData[8:], "127.0.0.1", 33000)
def XAPcommand(str):
global lastCommand
serialPort.WriteLine(str)
lastCommand = str
serialPort = IO.Ports.SerialPort("COM1") #set here the serial port connected to XAP800
serialPort.BaudRate = 38400 # default Baudrate for XAP800 38400
serialPort.DataBits = 8
#serialPort.DtrEnable = True
serialPort.RtsEnable = True
serialPort.DataReceived += Ondata
eventPayload=List[str](["COM1",str(serialPort.BaudRate),str(serialPort.DataBits)])
try:
serialPort.Open()
except:
vc.triggerEvent("XAP800.Port.Failed",eventPayload)
else:
vc.triggerEvent("XAP800.Port.Opened",eventPayload)
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I'm not too clear on what you are doing here but if we can help you with something specific, let us know.
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James,
I am trying to write a python (the script above) that forwards the com port info to VC through UDP ... but it is not working
to be precise, the UDP part works .. as I see the connection confirmation message in VC ...
to be honest I am not sure if understand the script perfectly, but I believe that
serialPort.DataReceived += Ondatais what triggers the monitoring function ...
however no serial data being forwarded to VC
ideally it should filter any character that is below space in ASCII ... hence forwarding only the triggering commands from XAP800 ...
any other solutions, towards the same end, are for sure welcome ...
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OK.
What is connected to what com port and what does this virtual serial port emulator have to do with it? I don't get why you have posted this image of this other program or what information we are supposed to get from it.
What kind of messages are being sent from the serial device? When are they sent and what is the data that they contain? Does it follow some kind of protocol?
Why do you need to use UDP? If you have a python script running inside of VC you can trigger events and any other actions directly.
When you try to execute your python script, does it compile, or is some kind of error shown?
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real com port <--> virtual com port (splitter) <--> XAP800 (running XAP software on PC, to configure and/or monitor XAP800)
<--> Python Script <--> VC
the reason for the virtual com port (the software posted above) so that multiple software can connect to the real com port at the same time (through the virtual port) ... otherwise I can't monitor the port by VC and Gentner software at the same time ...
now that screen shot shows that the device is sending the right text data through com port ... so all python has to do is capture that data and send back to VC...
why UDP ... I think it will keep the python script simpler ... the Vc.triggerevent you see in the green text ... those are generated by XAP800 ... so instead of sending a variable to python and translate that with multiple ifs to trigger the right event ... I can trigger the right event straight from within XAP800
now when I run the script posted above I do not get any error messages ... but I don't get to "listen" to any events coming through the com port ...
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If you have the python script already runing, what did the python plugin monitoring?Any data or nothing?
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Kalle: nothing ...
update ... seems the script is not "opening or initializing the port" ...
the moment I opened the port with a terminal ... the data (seems was in a buffer) flooded VC ...as per image
with the terminal running, VC is receiving the data
update 2
VC continue to receive data even after closing the terminal ... but I must run the terminal once to start receiving data
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Why don't you start by connecting the xap directly to the com port and opening it in vc/python without this other program getting in the way? It seems like you are starting with the most complicated possible solution. Start smaller and work your way up to the complicated version. There are too many variables involved right now.
As for your explanation about why you are using UDP I am unfortunately unable to understand your reasoning, but I also don't know where these messages are coming from that already contain TriggerEvent in them.
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James,
I did try to open the com port directly, no luck as well ... And I can't try with terminal and VC at the same time as VC access the port exclusively
The vc.triggerevent messages are generated from the XAP800 hardware ... It has the capacity to send a text string through com port when an event happens... In this case I set it up to send
Vc.triggerevent mic # on/off based on the mic gate status ... Which will inform VC from which room the command is coming ...
Thinking about it ... You are right I can eliminate the UDP part ... Once Python read certain string (ex. Mic # on/off) it triggers an event in VC ... However, that decision will come later once VC can communicate with XAP800
A question comes to my mind, is the script you wrote with Kalle use hardware control with com port ? Or it is written to work over usb to serial with only Tx, Rx and GND Pins?
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It has been tested with Arduino which is connected via USB, but I don't think this should really matter.
Is it possible that after you open the serial port, you need to send an instruction to the XAP like some kind of hello message?
Can you try sending a message to the XAP that would cause it to do something which you can visibly see if it is working or not?
Are the messages coming from the XAP terminated with a carriage return? If not, then maybe readline is not going to work?
Are you sure you have the correct com port, baud, etc?
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James ...
baud rates ..etc. are correct ... as the communication is happening after running terminal ....
yes the message from XAP is terminated with 0D (hex) character ..
I have a very strong belief that the problem is the way the script opens the port ... (see 2 images)
when VC opens the port RTS (request to send is off) while when terminal open it, it is on triggering the release of the data in the buffer
as well PY serial give the option to set RTS/CTS to True when opening the port (http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/pyserial_api.html) ...
is that possible with the way the script work ? I can't find documentation
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http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.io.ports%28v=vs.110%29.aspx
The serial communication aspect is not relying on native Python libraries. Whenever you see the script calling "clr" (Common Language Runtime) and "system", that is your clue that the code is probably using .Net classes.
http://www.ironpython.info/index.php?title=Main_Page
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RTS and CTS stand for Request ToSend and Clear To Send respectively. I don't think you would ever set them both to true.
I'm only guessing here, but I assume that CTS means that we are ready to receive data, this would be the default after opening the port. RTS would be high when we wanted to send data. You have not tried to send any data from VC over the serial port but I'm guessing this would set RTS to high automatically.
If you want to mess around with serial port properties you can try looking here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/System.IO.Ports.SerialPort_properties(v=vs.110).aspx
You can start by setting RtsEnable to True.
e.g.:
serialPort = IO.Ports.SerialPort("COM1")
serialPort.BaudRate = 38400
serialPort.RtsEnable = True
serialPort.DataReceived += Ondata
serialPort.Open()
serialPort.WriteLine("something the xap800 can understand")
edit: in my code I had DtrEnable by accident, I changed it to RtsEnable.
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Done :)
RtsEnable solved it
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::wiggle
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Wow. Glad to see this. I have been playing around with my logitech hub and vera the last few days. I completely missed this. Thank you for documenting.
What mics did you pick up? I love my Beyerdynamics MPC 22. I am not to fond of the Crown PZM-11. It could be that it is a bad mic, but i have yet to find the sweet spot on sensitivity. I am either low or high on settings. Nothing in between.
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Hi,
i've work really hard to find information about the best mic mixer device and the best way to apply it in my project but it is difficult! I got really excited with:
"5. with 1 or 2 devices and multiple sound cards (depending on number of rooms and stereo or mono signal) these devices can double as audio routers ... meaning VC can send music on sound card 1 to bedroom , and radio on another to kitchen, while watching Blu-ray 5.1 in the living ... or send the music to all rooms ... that applies as well to VC responses ... "
Couldn't you explain it better, plx? How is the best and efficient way to play music in my bedroom while watch blu-ray 7.1 in the living using:
SW:
Windows 8.1 PT/BR
VoxCommando 2.1.3.3.
XBMC
Vera 3
HW:
PC on hometheather with 01 onboard sound card + 01 GeForce GTX 770 + 1 HDMI Card Capture (for may cable tv) Receiver Onkyo TX-NR636 7.2-Ch Dolby Atmos Ready Network A/V Receiver w/ HDMI 2.0
Pollycom Vertex ef2280 or Getner XAP800 (choosing yet)
03 Beyerdynamic MPC22
I need 02 room with acoustic sound and living room surround 7.2 playing simultaneously different act.
I don't knok if i make myself clear.
Tkx,Done :)
RtsEnable solved it
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I really do not get what you are asking me exactly, but here is some info that might help clearing things
XAP 800 provides 12 inputs & 12 outputs (Ap800 provides 8 ) you can stack units together to get more inputs...
Good to know that each speaker will take one input so my 5.1 takes 6 inputs and 6 outputs... TV out is connected to sound card line in so it is part of the 5.1
If you have way too many inputs you can mix them with a simple mixer made from few resistors, or high end one (in you scenario home theatre reciever serves as a high end one)
The reason I pass all speakers through XAP is echo cancellation, in other words VC will not hear back the movie through the mic ...
Now the 5.1 sound is coming from external USB card, and I have 2 coming from my PC internal card...
Basically XAP800, is a matrix mixer, which means you can route any input to any number of outputs... So the scenarious are limitless ... I highly suggest that you download the manual to fully understand the possibilities ...
The main reason I went with XAP800 not ef2280 is power supply ... I hate those things as the always end up cluttering space and they are always a pain to manage ... As for other features I believe they are very similar
XAP 800 as well provides serial interface (rs232) for control so you can send commands, like mute or change output from a PC / I have no Vera , so I can't tell if you can use it to control XAP 800
As far as how many sound cards you need, it is basically the amount of various streams that you will need to play at the same time ..
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Am I right in thinking that you pass line level (unamplified) outputs through the mixer, run them to another room and then into an amplifier?
Or do you pass direct from an amplifier's speaker output, through the mixer, and into the speaker?
@paulonegreti with your Onkyo you can set up your 7.1 as a 5.1 system with a separate 2 channel zone for another room and you can use the Onkyo plugin to control it with VoxCommando.
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James,
I run line level
Sound card -----> XAP 800 -------> amplified speakers
As I have Logitech 5.1 in the living and Cambridge sound 4.1 which I am splitting over 2 rooms
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Can you give any detail on how your are making the audio connections from the sound card that plays 5.1 to the XAP800? And also on the connection from the XAP to the 5.1 receiver?
I would think your only options would be to go from the sound card to the XAP would be 3.5mm, HDMI or SPDIF and the XAP doesn't have those inputs. I have the same question on the 5.1 audio that goes from the XAP to the receiver. Are you using some sort of converter?
I am looking at replicating your setup in a home I am looking at building. So far, that's the part I was unsure of after reading your posts.
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Haddood,
I'm sorry if I was not clear enough! My english is terrible! hahaha
Your explanation helped a lot! But I still have a doubt remaining...
What about de MICs connections? How they are connected into the PC? Each mic take an input in the XAP 800? I will need a Sound Card In to connect to PC?
I am very grateful for the help!!!
Tkx,
Paulo
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Can you give any detail on how your are making the audio connections from the sound card that plays 5.1 to the XAP800? And also on the connection from the XAP to the 5.1 receiver?
I would think your only options would be to go from the sound card to the XAP would be 3.5mm, HDMI or SPDIF and the XAP doesn't have those inputs. I have the same question on the 5.1 audio that goes from the XAP to the receiver. Are you using some sort of converter?
I am looking at replicating your setup in a home I am looking at building. So far, that's the part I was unsure of after reading your posts.
no converters ... take a stereo 3.5 cut it in 2 halves ...
sound card Front ---> 3.5 (stereo) ----> cut ----> Left channel ----- > XAP800 input 12
----> Right channel --- > XAP800 input 11
XAP800 output 12 ----> 3.5 (left channel) ----> Amplifier input front 3.5
XAP800 output 11 ----> 3.5 (Right channel)
and the same for back speakers (input 10 & 9 on XAP)
and the same for center and subwoofer (input 8 and 7 on XAP and make sure that you turn off phantom power)
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Haddood,
I'm sorry if I was not clear enough! My english is terrible! hahaha
Your explanation helped a lot! But I still have a doubt remaining...
What about de MICs connections? How they are connected into the PC? Each mic take an input in the XAP 800? I will need a Sound Card In to connect to PC?
I am very grateful for the help!!!
Tkx,
Paulo
Paulo,
MIC 1 ----> input 1 on XAP
MIC 2 ----> input 2 on XAP
using the matrix, mix both and output on output 1 ----> PC mic (or line in) and make Speech Recognition to use that line
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no converters ... take a stereo 3.5 cut it in 2 halves ...
sound card Front ---> 3.5 (stereo) ----> cut ----> Left channel ----- > XAP800 input 12
----> Right channel --- > XAP800 input 11
XAP800 output 12 ----> 3.5 (left channel) ----> Amplifier input front 3.5
XAP800 output 11 ----> 3.5 (Right channel)
and the same for back speakers (input 10 & 9 on XAP)
and the same for center and subwoofer (input 8 and 7 on XAP and make sure that you turn off phantom power)
So this would give me 5.1 surround? Wouldn't I need 3 separate 3.5mm outputs from the sound card, or is that what you're getting at?
Edit: Sorry, I understand now. I would need a sound card like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/External-Sound-Card-Channel-Audio/dp/B003TO3KHY (http://www.amazon.co.uk/External-Sound-Card-Channel-Audio/dp/B003TO3KHY) instead of using the SPDIF which I normally use to go to my receiver.
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Incredible it is exactly the sound card I have :)
However for the mic input I use the built in sound card in Mac-mini (I run windows on old Mac mini)
And I use TV out through the line in of this sound card so all generated sounds pass through XAP for echo cancelation
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PY Script updated in second post ...
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please help. what do you send from xap commandstring to trigger gate status. i need more info!! jumpered command port dont know next step!
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Hopefully Haddood will have time to respond eventually.
In the meantime, have you consulted the manual? There's a link to the ClearOne manuals somewhere here on the forum.
If you're using the XAP800: http://www.clearone.com/uploads/resource/800_151_101_Rev4_1_XAP800Man.pdf
Appendix E of that document describes how to compose serial commands.
e.g., if you're using an XAP800, reporting the gate status of device with ID 0 would be:
#50 GATE
I don't have one of these things so maybe I'm wrong. Just based on scanning the manual:
5 = XAP 800
0 = device ID 0 (IDs can range from 0-7, obviously)
And GATE seems to be the serial command that "Reports gate status of channels 1–8".
If I'm off base Haddood or someone else can correct me, but I'd recommend experimenting based on the documentation.
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@adam ... I will try to post detailed info asap...
I will repost the PY script as well, just in case I updated stuff... It is important you get it working (test by sending mute)
If you can't wait and want to try. The idea XAP can send strings when an event happen... You put the strings in g-ware ... Then in control io you set when pin 1 go up due to gate trigger string 1 , gate 2 to string 2 ... Etc.
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thank you. what im looking for is what serial command should be sent to vox commando from xap. i wish calling from vox for gate status would work but from what ive took from reading fellow prodjects theres to much of a delay to be useful. sorry im kindof a newbie
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lol @haddood u posted as i was writeing. thank you wen u update would it be posible to attach your site file soo we can compare settings. btw everything is veary much apprieted! all u guys out there contributing thumbs up 2 u. between vox and eventghost this is what ive wanted for years and didnt have ability to create myself!
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@Adam, I updated the second post in the thread with some extra info ...
let me know if you got it working or you are still facing issues
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did the trick thank you soooo much. still havent got mute to work getting argument error. once i get it and figure out how to run macros ill be set :D
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Has anyone been able to locate one of these used conference mixers in Europe? What makes and models should I look for and where? All of the options mentioned on this forum seem to be only available in america on ebay, but I'm sure there are similar devices used on this side of the pond as well.
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I don't know about ClearOne products, but the conversation originally started with Polycom Vortex: http://voxcommando.com/forum/index.php?topic=1425.msg12382#msg12382
I'm seeing some being sold by European ebay sellers or to European markets, but maybe not as extensively. Presumably there would be different required technical specifications for European users, though.
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did the trick thank you soooo much. still havent got mute to work getting argument error. once i get it and figure out how to run macros ill be set :D
Are you receiving gate event ? If yes ... Then post here how exactly you are sending the mute command ...
I just remembered that you have to make sure only one mic can gate on at a time ... Or it will be a mess ... Will post details about that when I have few minutes
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yes gateing is working perfectly
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@adam ... I uploaded new group xml ... it has a loading sequence. call XAP800.load with trigger event ... you might need to modify it if you are not using VSPE ...
from your JPG what are you doing wrong is that you changed the {1} after #5 to {0} ... you can't ... payload 1 is device ID ... I kept this as I think I will need to chain another device for more inputs.
check the description in the mute to know what each payload is. you will need a min of 3 payloads to query or 4 payloads to issue a command.
if you want to test directly without payloads remove the brackets {}
if you develop some scenarios or commands, please share ...
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thank you for update. the 0 was way xml loaded i didnt change. i just got it working and then i checked ure post lol. i have macro working also. i really appreite! this is going to be soo awsome lol.
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soo dont realy know whats going on but xap is working perfect with commands and reporting to vox but after a lil while vox stops receiveing audio from mics. mic shows level in windows propertys but vox does not
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Can you explain a bit more... Post some screen shots
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seems with switching back to onboard mic input and restarting server 2012 its back to working perfect. should have tried before i posted duh lol. if problem happens agein ill post screenshots. it still blows me away how responsive gates are working and commands. i cant wait to get all programed to be able to say play music in any room. i have a long way but i think im getting hang of. i have to keep myself from buying another xap lol. but i will say if anyone has a radioshack around them check if there closeing ive bought about $4000+ in connectors wires plugs etc for about 100 bucks.
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@adam : great ... with XAP multi-room open air mic becomes a possible solution
as well check post 2 again, I added how to setup gating to make sure VC do not get confused
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soo mic input problem has ben comeing and going @haddood it looks like same problem u were haveing in feb. were u able to fix? try the reinitialize mic in options and no luck. kindof seems that vox gets persay backed up were sometimes ill be talking and 20-30 sec or so vox will just start fireing commands. a full restart always works. my setup is still pretty small besides all of the room macros for 3 stereo inputs and the 100 commands to my onkyo lol. none is set up for speech yet though just remote commands from event ghost.
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soo it seems that vspe was the culprit. disabled couple days ago and havent ben haveing mic disconect problem
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for me the problem is gone a while back ... can't remember how or why ... still using VSPE though
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I know this is an old topic but i want to add some info that might be helpfull for future reference.
Years back ik started to setup a multi room VR system with a XAP800. Now i have this running for years now and i kept a blog with my findings, results and solutions on VR and whole hpuse audio
Now i setting this up with voxcommando as VR to control my HomeSeer system. Previously is developed my own VR client to work with Dutch. At the pages below you can find many tips and background info why you should do things like that or not. Also available is the vbscript file to control this and the PSR file to configure your XAP800
For general information about setting up a whole house audio system
http://members.home.nl/b.vanzoelen/ZMC.htm
More detailed information about setting up VR
http://members.home.nl/b.vanzoelen/ZMCVRpart1.htm
Hope this will help anyone.
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Hi AshaiRey and welcome to VC-Forum.
A really cool setup up and it also shows the difficulties there can be in such a multiroom solution.
It also shows that it takes a long process and requires a lot of work and know how.
Thanks for this helpful information.
Kalle